Today’s conversation is with M. Shadee Malaklou, who is Chair of and teaches in the Department of Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies at Berea College where she is also Inaugural Founder and Director of The bell hooks Center. Her work focuses on variations on afropessimism, from the expansiveness of its vision to important critical interventions against its nihilism. In this conversation, we discuss the cultural and political meaning of pessimism, the foundations of the field of Black Studies in nihilism and resistance to it, and the transformative role of gender and sexuality studies for the field.